Comments on: Cognitive Dissonance and Skepticism http://www.bnfree.com/cognitive-dissonance-and-skepticism/?utm_source=rss&utm_medium=rss&utm_campaign=cognitive-dissonance-and-skepticism Sun, 19 Jun 2011 15:43:20 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.1 By: Skeptical Rationalist http://www.bnfree.com/cognitive-dissonance-and-skepticism/comment-page-1/#comment-132 Skeptical Rationalist Sun, 23 May 2010 22:18:13 +0000 http://www.bnfree.com/?p=210#comment-132 @ Ann T Dogma They lost weight because of the caloric restriction, with the homeopathic hormones ostensibly having some vaguely-worded metabolic effect. I wouldn't so much call it a placebo effect as it is a <i>post hoc ergo propter hoc</i> fallacy. "It happened after, therefore it was caused by." The reason it was harmful is one, rapid crash dieting is unhealthy, and two, they're paying good money for drops of water (with what I suspect is a bittering agent so it tastes medicinal). Plus, crash dieting is only good for temporary weight loss. @ Ann T Dogma

They lost weight because of the caloric restriction, with the homeopathic hormones ostensibly having some vaguely-worded metabolic effect. I wouldn’t so much call it a placebo effect as it is a post hoc ergo propter hoc fallacy. “It happened after, therefore it was caused by.”

The reason it was harmful is one, rapid crash dieting is unhealthy, and two, they’re paying good money for drops of water (with what I suspect is a bittering agent so it tastes medicinal). Plus, crash dieting is only good for temporary weight loss.

]]> By: Jay Pea http://www.bnfree.com/cognitive-dissonance-and-skepticism/comment-page-1/#comment-99 Jay Pea Wed, 19 May 2010 05:38:49 +0000 http://www.bnfree.com/?p=210#comment-99 Losing a couple of pounds a day can be dangerous. It's a good thing your family has an objective observer capable of being rational to help guide them through the perils of homeopathy. Losing a couple of pounds a day can be dangerous. It’s a good thing your family has an objective observer capable of being rational to help guide them through the perils of homeopathy.

]]> By: ken http://www.bnfree.com/cognitive-dissonance-and-skepticism/comment-page-1/#comment-92 ken Tue, 18 May 2010 15:43:56 +0000 http://www.bnfree.com/?p=210#comment-92 I'm thinking more along the lines of the scientific evidence as to the existence of the placebo effect, rather than in anecdotal accounts. Generally, the placebo effect is considered important in evaluating the benefit of a particular medication in use with humans. Isn't it considered an important variable in the testing of new drugs? Some studies have called into question the existence of the placebo effect, but other studies have rejected those claims. I guess I'm more intrigued by whether the existence of the placebo effect challenges materialist assumptions about the nature of the brain and/or mind. I’m thinking more along the lines of the scientific evidence as to the existence of the placebo effect, rather than in anecdotal accounts. Generally, the placebo effect is considered important in evaluating the benefit of a particular medication in use with humans. Isn’t it considered an important variable in the testing of new drugs? Some studies have called into question the existence of the placebo effect, but other studies have rejected those claims. I guess I’m more intrigued by whether the existence of the placebo effect challenges materialist assumptions about the nature of the brain and/or mind.

]]> By: Brian http://www.bnfree.com/cognitive-dissonance-and-skepticism/comment-page-1/#comment-91 Brian Tue, 18 May 2010 15:07:31 +0000 http://www.bnfree.com/?p=210#comment-91 @Ken I don't think the placebo effect necessarily affects the physiological responses of the body. I think it is at least sometimes in the perception of the effects. For example, the placebo effect can be seen in pets. A dog or cat doesn't understand that flea medication will help prevent fleas, but a human spectator may think that their homeopathic flea treatment is working because they perceive that their pet has been scratching less. They expect to see those results and will interpret "data" in favor of their expectations. Just as people tend to find similarities in people of the same astrological sign, while ignoring the differences. Just my 2 cents... @Ken I don’t think the placebo effect necessarily affects the physiological responses of the body. I think it is at least sometimes in the perception of the effects. For example, the placebo effect can be seen in pets. A dog or cat doesn’t understand that flea medication will help prevent fleas, but a human spectator may think that their homeopathic flea treatment is working because they perceive that their pet has been scratching less. They expect to see those results and will interpret “data” in favor of their expectations. Just as people tend to find similarities in people of the same astrological sign, while ignoring the differences. Just my 2 cents…

]]> By: ken http://www.bnfree.com/cognitive-dissonance-and-skepticism/comment-page-1/#comment-87 ken Tue, 18 May 2010 00:32:47 +0000 http://www.bnfree.com/?p=210#comment-87 I've often wondered about the placebo effect. There appears to be enough evidence to indicate the effect is real. However, from a materialist perspective, the placebo effect cannot be real because there is no distinction between the mind and brain, and therefore belief or hope cannot affect the physiological responses of the body. I’ve often wondered about the placebo effect. There appears to be enough evidence to indicate the effect is real. However, from a materialist perspective, the placebo effect cannot be real because there is no distinction between the mind and brain, and therefore belief or hope cannot affect the physiological responses of the body.

]]> By: Ann T. Dogma http://www.bnfree.com/cognitive-dissonance-and-skepticism/comment-page-1/#comment-83 Ann T. Dogma Sun, 16 May 2010 14:35:02 +0000 http://www.bnfree.com/?p=210#comment-83 So, Skeptical Rationalist, are you saying your family *did* lose weight on the program, your point being this was probably due to the placebo effect? That would be very tricky to convey to them, as correlation is so easily confused with causation in the non-scientific frame of mind. The important things are a) you were sensitive and smart in your approach with them, and b) you made an effort to educate. That's worthy. So, Skeptical Rationalist, are you saying your family *did* lose weight on the program, your point being this was probably due to the placebo effect? That would be very tricky to convey to them, as correlation is so easily confused with causation in the non-scientific frame of mind. The important things are a) you were sensitive and smart in your approach with them, and b) you made an effort to educate. That’s worthy.

]]> By: Happy Skeptic http://www.bnfree.com/cognitive-dissonance-and-skepticism/comment-page-1/#comment-79 Happy Skeptic Tue, 11 May 2010 21:33:16 +0000 http://www.bnfree.com/?p=210#comment-79 Weight is such a tricky subject. Even doctor's offices focus a great deal on weight instead of overall health. I don't really think scales are a great thing, but rather body mass indexing. A scale can not let you know a thin person has very little muscle and a heavier person is within the appropriate limits. It also leads to us focusing on weight loss, damn the consequences. Moreover, unless you are really thin it is hard to get anyone to listen to you about healthy eating because thin has become the ultimate goal. This perspective is very personal, it can be a daily battle and food has never been a 'light' subject for me. Weight is such a tricky subject. Even doctor’s offices focus a great deal on weight instead of overall health. I don’t really think scales are a great thing, but rather body mass indexing. A scale can not let you know a thin person has very little muscle and a heavier person is within the appropriate limits. It also leads to us focusing on weight loss, damn the consequences. Moreover, unless you are really thin it is hard to get anyone to listen to you about healthy eating because thin has become the ultimate goal.
This perspective is very personal, it can be a daily battle and food has never been a ‘light’ subject for me.

]]> By: Brian http://www.bnfree.com/cognitive-dissonance-and-skepticism/comment-page-1/#comment-76 Brian Mon, 03 May 2010 15:54:44 +0000 http://www.bnfree.com/?p=210#comment-76 I can think of a few situations in which I most likely offended friends and family. I really like your approach of being less aggressive when approaching these sensitive topics. Skeptoid has a great episode called "How to Be a Skeptic and Still Have Friends" (http://skeptoid.com/episodes/4116). I can think of a few situations in which I most likely offended friends and family. I really like your approach of being less aggressive when approaching these sensitive topics. Skeptoid has a great episode called “How to Be a Skeptic and Still Have Friends” (http://skeptoid.com/episodes/4116).

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